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Fly Fishing in the Southeastern US
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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:14 pm 
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Warpaint Shiner

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:04 am
Posts: 43
phg wrote:
Let's see if I can explain this.

For most anglers, it would be catch and release only.

If, however, you are a trophy fisherman (I understand that not all trophy fishermen are rich, but most are, at least relative to the rest of us), and are willing to hire a guide ($$$) to take you out, you can purchase a special permit ($$) that allows you to do what ordinary people are not allowed to do, which, of course gives you bragging rights if you are successful....

I'm sorry, that's the classic definition of a snob, and that makes it snob fishing. I cannot support special permits for the elite, no matter how you define 'elite'. Either everyone is allowed to keep a fish or two a day, or NO ONE is allowed to do so. Equality before the law!

I also agree with 5x, show me a sound biological reason for no harvest. Here in NC, declining fish stocks aren't because of fishermen, but because the state has allowed the marshes and estuaries to be trashed. No breeding grounds = no fish. Why do people have trouble understanding that?



Paul,

I think you may be confused on the "kill tag" proposal. I may be wrong, but I think they are proposing a similar tagging program to what they have with tarpon. It's my understanding, anyone can purchase a tag and harvest a tarpon of any size. The tag program does not preclude anyone from keeping a fish, unless you want to argue the $51.50 is exclusionary. Personally, I think if you have a boat and can afford to put gas in it, you probably can scrape up the cash to purchase a tag.

I don't think you have to hire a guide to have a killtag. Furthermore, I think you are getting hungup on the term "trophy". I may be wrong, but that is my understanding of the tagging proposal.

With regard to the degradation of our estuaries...I couldn't agree more. I think anglers must become involved in BOTH the conservation of fish as well as their habitat. Personally, I think elevating the status of such a great gamefish is a step in that direction.

So, can we dispense with the "snobbery" talk, Paul?

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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:17 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Location: Statesboro, GA
I've never fished for permit. I have been a Fishmonger for 17 years (small retail market) and have not once seen Permit on a price list or a truck delivering fresh fish. So if there is a commercial interest in Permit where are they being sold?

Regards,

don

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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:48 pm 
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Warpaint Shiner

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:04 am
Posts: 43
croaker wrote:
I've never fished for permit. I have been a Fishmonger for 17 years (small retail market) and have not once seen Permit on a price list or a truck delivering fresh fish. So if there is a commercial interest in Permit where are they being sold?

Regards,

don


Don,
I can't say for sure, but I expect a lot of it may get sold as pompano. The two species are managed together since it is difficult to distinguish them from one another, especially in the smaller sizes. I'm not out to screw commercial fishermen (the commercial harvest is relatively small), but I think it would be relatively easy to prove the fish are worth more in recreational angling/tourism dollars to Florida than what the annual harvest fetches per pound at the fish market. Finally, the only viable way to commercially fish for permit (so I'm told) is to target them when they are spawning on wrecks or artificial reefs.

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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:16 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Location: Statesboro, GA
Flatlander wrote:
croaker wrote:
I've never fished for permit. I have been a Fishmonger for 17 years (small retail market) and have not once seen Permit on a price list or a truck delivering fresh fish. So if there is a commercial interest in Permit where are they being sold?

Regards,

don


Don,
I can't say for sure, but I expect a lot of it may get sold as pompano. The two species are managed together since it is difficult to distinguish them from one another, especially in the smaller sizes. I'm not out to screw commercial fishermen (the commercial harvest is relatively small), but I think it would be relatively easy to prove the fish are worth more in recreational angling/tourism dollars to Florida than what the annual harvest fetches per pound at the fish market. Finally, the only viable way to commercially fish for permit (so I'm told) is to target them when they are spawning on wrecks or artificial reefs.


Lotta , I'm not sure, I think and hearsay on your part. Have you ever seen Permit for sale at a fish market, grocery store or dock?

Regards,

don

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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:28 am 
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Warpaint Shiner

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:04 am
Posts: 43
[quote="croaker"]

Lotta , I'm not sure, I think and hearsay on your part.

Well, after rereading my reply to PHG regarding the "Snob Fishery" I do see that I used a "lotta I'm not sures". I guess that was my attempt to politely tell Paul that he really didn't understand the proposed tagging program. I thought I was pretty diplomatic...especially given the tone of his prior post seem to imply that I rode the short bus to school :D .

Let me say this... I know for a fact that that's how kill tags work for tarpon in Florida. John O'hearn's letter might come across the wrong way with it's wording regarding a tagging program for "trophies only". I can see where that might be interpreted incorrectly and cause some anger. However, if you read the sample email, it reads, "I support the creation of a catch and release fishery for the species, with some provision (stamp or tag) for possessing one a day." No mention of trophies there or implied exclusivity. If you buy a tag, you would be free to kill a permit and do whatever you want with it...eat it, hang it on the wall, or run naked down Duval St. slapping strippers and burnt-out hippies in the face with it :mrgreen:

(On a side note, I just read that another group is proposing that the current tarpon tag be extended to cover both Bonefish and Permit...all three 'grand slam' species. Sounds like a good idea to me)

Have you ever seen Permit for sale at a fish market, grocery store or dock?
Nope. I have seen it on the menus of several Key West resteraunts, though. Don, I get what your implying here...the harvest is relatively small.



Wow...tough crowd. Sorry I brought this up. I do wonder what the reaction would be here if TWRA asked for input on changing the management plan for brown trout on the South Holston River and a couple of the local guides proposed a catch-and-release section and more protection for spawning fish. Would we be accusing those guys of being snobs or saying "don't fix it if it ain't broke?"

Malcolm

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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:43 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Posts: 581
Per Malcolm....."Wow...tough crowd"

Nah...they ain't so tough :shock:

Overboard has a constant case of the Whiney Flu.

The Stoneman runs to his hole at the mention of ...Bear.

Nub has to go to the Quickie Mart when his coffee cup runs dry.

Ralphie heads to the car when he runs out of jujubees and trout crack.

Disco disappears when the New River muddies up.

Teachertec resorts to rummaging through trash containers when he runs out of tieing materials.

Billres only fishes with Croaker cause he's the keeper of the beer.

Flychamps whines like a sissy when you superglue his scotch bottle top.

Streamer won't show if the coffee pot ain't full.

Nando ain't happy if he's not burning something.

Mstash pouts if you tell him Nub is taller.

Nah....they ain't so tough after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:47 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Location: Hartsville, SC
And Riverman gets seasick watching a cork! :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:22 pm 
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Rainbow Trout
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:17 pm
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Location: Camel City, NC
5xTippett wrote:
And Riverman gets seasick watching a cork! :twisted:


Don't feel bad Blake.....my wife got seasick during "The Perfect Storm".


Last edited by Beetle on Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:25 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Yep....Nub got me on that one...but...I prefer to call them "Indicators" :o .


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 Post subject: Re: Little help...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:00 am 
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Warpaint Shiner

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:04 am
Posts: 43
Beetle wrote:
5xTippett wrote:
And Riverman gets seasick watching a cork! :twisted:


Don't feel bad Blake.....my wife got seasick during "The Perfect Storm".


Speaking of getting seasick...when are you going to spring your haphazzard trap. This is worse than waiting for that squirrel to crawl under the cardboard-box-proppred-on-a-stick trap that I made when I was 7 :D

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