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Fly Fishing in the Southeastern US
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 Post subject: For those interested in SoHo critters
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:05 am 
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Rainbow Trout

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 70
Here’s a statement I received on the first batch of Ephemerella, the SoHo yellows/sulfurs, I sent to researchers in the Midwest for DNA work.

“The stuff from earlier this year, for which I have at least partial DNA sequence data, appeared to be E. invaria (in the broad concept of my recent revisionary work).”

The first batch of male spinners was collected from the River’s Way reach during May-June of this year. I just recently mailed the second set, again from the River’s Way reach collected in July-Oct. It will be interesting to put it all together.


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 Post subject: For those interested in SoHo critters
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:40 am 
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Brook Trout

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:11 am
Posts: 204
Thanks! Any ideas for fly pattern(s), size(s)? I'm not from the area, and this info would be well received.


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 Post subject: Re: For those interested in SoHo critters
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:19 am 
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Rainbow Trout

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 70
PM sent. I am not much of a tier, but others here are. I tie like I cook; it is simply a matter of refueling. Hopefully they will contribute.


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 Post subject: Re: For those interested in SoHo critters
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Rainbow Trout
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Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:52 pm
Posts: 74
I thought they were E. dorothea...what's the difference between these two species? Another question that I've had for a long time: why do the sulfur duns on the SoHo have what appears to be poorly developed tails? The tails on almost all the subimagos are short & kind of crippled-looking, & it is often hard to count if they have 2 or 3 tails (they have 3)....just wondering. It's nice to have an expert like bugman here!


Last edited by Maniac on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: For those interested in SoHo critters
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:21 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 581
This really is very good stuff. I always thought the big sulfurs were the Invaria followed by the smaller sulfurs...Dorothea. We'll finally find out for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: For those interested in SoHo critters
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:19 am 
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Rainbow Trout

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 70
This has been an ongoing discussion for as long as I can remember. As many of you know, I often get more excited about the critters of the SoHo than I do the fish.

I think the dorothea, which I will call, myth got started God-knows-when. Many moons ago (~25+ years) when I first started visiting the SoHo with friends, we were interested in the mayflies. We collected and discussed with the few fly anglers that were on the river at that time. Tim Landis, for one, mentioned that he saw dorothea and rotunda (now invaria) on the river. I respect Tim very much, and I think now he feels that the dorothea are gone. Someone that knows Tim and sees him frequently can ask. He’s a great guy and has fished the river for many, many years. Well, we collected a lot back in the day; I mean extensively, from the dam to Boone Lake, and never collected anything that resembled a dorothea, not nymphs or spinners. Admittedly identifying nymphs to species is a risky proposition, but the nymphs of dorothea and invaria are different, at least different when using the identification keys of the period. Other anglers of that time (before the labyrinth dam was built) also thought that invaria (rotunda) was the only species, particularly those anglers from NC. Those specimens collected over the years were sent to various mayfly taxonomic gurus for verification.

I think some angling writers have claimed that invaria was the early hatch and dorothea was the later one. I vaguely remember an article from a guy, I believe from Atlanta, that mentioned this.

Are there dorothea in the SoHo? I don’t think so. BUT, I have been wrong before. Another bit of evidence pointing toward "invaria only" is the data from the TN biologists that sample the benthic fauna. They only report invaria, no dorothea. This is based on nymphs, but as I said earlier the two are different, and if you have the late instar nymphs, then you can get a good idea of the ID.

As for the tails on the duns, if you collect the freshly emerged duns and let them harden and expand, the tails will straighten and look normal. It is just when they first pop off into the terrestrial world, they look atrophied. Another thing to note is if you observe color and size when the dun first hatches, then check later after hardening, then you’ll likely see a slight difference. But that is another topic.

It will be interesting to see the data on the latest batch.


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 Post subject: Re: For those interested in SoHo critters
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:22 pm 
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Rainbow Trout

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 70
PS – Please let me say that this invaria/dorothea deal matters little when it comes to catching fish on the SoHo. I know this critter stuff does not flip everyone’s cookie.

Also be cognizant that the critters from this year were collected from a short reach of the tailwater (River’s Way). The lower section near Boone Lake is a different animal and does/should have a slightly different fauna. I still don’t think there are dorothea downstream either, but if there is a surprise on the horizon then it will likely appear there.

And I am not an expert, but I would like to be one when I grow up. I am still learning.


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 Post subject: Re: For those interested in SoHo critters
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:31 am 
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Rainbow Trout

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 141
http://www.troutnut.com/topic/2276

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"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy


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