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 Post subject: No hackles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:00 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 387
The quill winged "no-hackle" is an uncharted water for me that I plan to tackle the next few evenings. I'm interested in any tying insight you fellas might have and are willing to share. I did an little cyber sleuthing today and found a variation using duck shoulder feathers. I'm planning on trying some of those dove shoulder and breast feathers I saved last fall on this pattern for BWOs and sulphurs.
Any ideas are welcome and appreciated.
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:05 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Well thanks for all the ideas. :shock:
I searched and watched a video on youtube to get an idea of how to tie the wing in. Then like a fool I started out trying #20 BWOs. The first attempt turned out pretty darn good so I thought "this will be a piece of cake". The next 5-6 flies required about 3 sets of wings each before they looked even close to right. Taking that wild turkey with a bow is starting to look easier than tying a box full of these flies. I still think they will be powerful medicine on flat water though. I ended up with a few cut wings because my duck quill wings are down to the last dregs, may have been working against me.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:15 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Posts: 1621
Location: Marshall NC
I don't know anything about the technique but I like the ones you have done as a start. They look good. Reminds me of the wing the fellows do in Europe. How have they done in the 'glass test'?

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Last edited by teachrtec on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:06 am 
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Brown Trout
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Location: the metropolis of Wagener
windknotter wrote:
Well thanks for all the ideas. :shock:


:lol: :lol: WK...unfortunately I'm with Brad....thats one of the few things i have no knowledge of ....in fact I started to tell ya..."yeah....get with plumbob".

Looks like ya did pretty good without any help though!! :D

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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:59 am 
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Brown Trout
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:33 pm
Posts: 1348
Location: Cary, N.C.
Theron,
I don't know how to tie it, but I do know that the wings on the ones I have seen that were tied by Poul Jorgenson were shorter than yours. Like shank length instead of whole hook length. The longer wing causes the fly to "helicopter", and when they land, the longer wing makes them tip over on their sides. The profile should be somewhere between upright and downwing style. The best one I see that you tied is the one in the top/center of your pic. That one shows the proper profile, and the wing length is very close to correct.

I can't tie them at all without ruining at least three pair of wings. That's why I stopped trying to tie them about 10 years ago. They make me :x .

Yer Pal,
Streamer

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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:17 am 
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Brown Trout
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Posts: 387
Brad,
I'll do the glass test when I get home and report back.

Streamer,
I saw all kinds of wing lengths on the internet. Wondered about windmilling and twisted tippets but those Soho duns had really big wings so I'm trying to copy that as best I can and I'll live with the results. These are only a small part of the arsenal 8-) and I'm planning on using them mostly on hard fish where all else fails.

Thanks for the comments.


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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:35 pm 
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Rainbow Trout
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:16 pm
Posts: 111
I like Iwamasa Duns. He has no hackles but also has duns with a little deer hair for legs that I think are better.

http://www.troutflies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=ken_no_hackle

Take Care,
Timbros.


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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Posts: 387
Brad,
I did the glass test, landed like a pro and looks darn good I must say. Should work just fine dressed on flat water.

Tim,
Thanks for the link.
May try legging a few to see if it makes any difference. Thought about splaying the fibet butts maybe and doing the heated bobbin bend on them. Tied some more this afternoon and just left the wing slips long. Trimmed them to length/shape last thing by pinching them together and using curve of finger tip as guide for scissors. Getting a little better at it, just need new duck wings now. :(


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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Posts: 1468
Your files look pretty good. I had to do a bit of research to figure out what you were talking about. Of course, I found conflicting information, but, basically, it's just a Catskill dun without a hackle. On this site, http://www.flyofthemonthclub.com/page.asp?p=67&i=109 I did find this statement:
Quote:
These patterns are very effective on trout and work especially on selectively feeding fish. They are however very fragile and the first trout take will undoubtedly leave your new creation looking much damaged. The key to tying no-hackle patterns is all in positioning the wings properly as you tie them in.
...just a word of warning.

I used to tie a lot of quill slip wings, but due to the difficulty of getting good quality quills, I've pretty much given it up. I did prefer goose primaries to anything else, but duck primaries were my second choice. Anyway, you've got yours in a downwing position more suitable for a wet fly. To get an upwing with a side mount, you have to pull the stub ends back under, and bind them to the bottom of the shank right behind the mount point. You can also fold them back along the sides, but I find that harder to do.

Plumbob usually reverse mounts his quill slip wings on top of the hook. That neat profile he gets is almost automatic when you stand the wings up. Of course, if you turn them the wrong way, the tips come out square and flat topped. As Streamer pointed out, 1 hook shank length gives the optimal balance between profile and fish-ability.


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 Post subject: Re: No hackles
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:04 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 387
Here's the latest style I've attempted. Maybe not a proper iwamasa dun but the best I could manage.
Image
What I'm trying to copy:
Image


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