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 Post subject: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Location: the metropolis of Wagener
I've been tying small bugs for a buddy....and along with natural type wings I'm doing a bunch of synthetic stuff.....

foam wing size 20...

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plastic wings cut from a ziplock bag size 18....

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web wing size 16.....

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I've had some decent results with the webwing fly shown on the slow DH section of the green River and the foam wing BWO on the N. Mills......just wondering if any of you guys have had any experience and what your thoughts are....I like the silouhette and sizes under 16 don't seem to present a problem with the tippet spinning.

The bug question I have is....how many variations in color are there for BWO's....seems like I've seen just about every shade from light olive to dark brown....even some greyish ones....are there more than two species Baetis and calibaetis ? or do they change colors in various adult stages or can the environment play a big role in thier color?? Should I just tie up a whole slew of various colorcombos and shades to be sure he is covered??

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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Brown Trout
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never mind the bug question....just remembered trout nut.....something like 23 genre of the Baetidae family? :roll: I need to bookmark some of these sights :ugeek:

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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:02 pm 
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Brown Trout
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While you're at it, you might try bookmarking some sites as well. :roll:

Yeah, BWO isn't very descriptive, and both your surmises are true. Jason's site is an invaluable research tool. I can't say as it's made my bugs look any better, but at least I have a better idea of what I'm trying to imitate....


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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Location: the metropolis of Wagener
phg wrote:
While you're at it, you might try bookmarking some sites as well. :roll:



Dammit!!! :lol: :lol: the one time I saw a spelling error and did'nt bother to go back and edit it it....and I just knew someone would call me out on it! I swear it! :lol: :lol: :lol:

more seriously....yeah...troutnut is a great site....I just had'nt been tying any trout flies for like a year and a half....and completely forgot about it.....it pretty much answered my questions like you said....theres probably at least forty bugs that can or will be called "BWO's". Normally I just do like I said....tie a multitude in every color and size combo...and when I see whats in the area....I just try to match it with the closest thing in the box......I was really hoping for a way to narrow it down some.....but when all the hatch charts say is BWO.....it pretty much means you better have a wide variety of everything in the box :roll: .....not so much if it says "march brown" or "western green drake". On another note....hoppers...not as bad as BWO's come in many shapes and colors....it would help if hatch charts gave some explanation or description of the local varieties. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Tiny bugs + Foam wings = Twisted tippets... for me anyhow.
Whatever happened to the good old days of just Super Glueing a real bug to a hook?

and Tommy... I have quite a few of the old-school sandwich bag zip lock sections with the real nice embossed checking on them. They make hellacious caddis wings... Super Glue or not.


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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:58 am 
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Brown Trout
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Location: the metropolis of Wagener
Jack...perhaps you spend too much time showing off your casting skills and not enough time letting the bug float down stream?? :o ;) On the bigger flies like 14's admittedly I'll have to stop after about every fourth cast and let the tippet unwind.....but I really never noticed a problem with the small ones? Are you making false casts or just doing short roll casts? On the Mills ... a small roll cast to put your fly back upstream is all that is necessary most of the time. FWIW....those plastic upright wings are a pain...I figured they'd be a cinch....but they dont gather up like the foam and webwing when tying them in with X wraps....thus they cause a problem when trying to hackle the fly. I'll have to try a few on caddis....maybe its better suited for them! :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:22 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Location: Cary, N.C.
A couple of thoughts........Foam wings suck. They look cool, and yours, Tom, are prettier than most, but my experience is the same as Jack's. They twist the tippet, they get cocked out of shape after a dozen casts, and can't be re-shaped, and they don't do anything better than a hen hackle tip. Hen hackle tips are my wing material of choice for BWO's, and really almost any dry fly of similar profile. Plus, foam is 3-4 times thicker than a mayfly or caddis wing, so there's this bulk to consider.

I do like the Medallion wing material as a close second choice. Even Swiss Straw will do a nice job. Never used the web wing. It looks nice.

I will tell you a story:

Colin tied some gorgeous.....I mean truly gorgeous parachute BWO's in a size 20 and 22. They were tied for JT. We went out fishing together, and in a BWO HATCH, JT could not buy a bite. I fished a similar fly with a different colored hackle and axe murdered 'em. Most of the time, in my experience, size and presentation are more important than color, but sometimes in a BWO hatch, color can be THE key. That's why they're frustrating to fish and tie. LOTS of variables.

My $.02 worth.

Yer Pal,
Streamer

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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Location: the metropolis of Wagener
Jule....that is one thing I'm trying to do....use as many color variations or shades of colors as possible....but its mind numbing to think too long about it :roll:

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"The fish and I were both stunned and disbelieving to find ourselves connected by a line." William Humphrey


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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:12 am 
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Rainbow Trout

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:03 pm
Posts: 70
As others have pointed out, most flies with nice wing silhouettes equals twisted tippets. I have found they can be used but make no false casts.

Your quandary over the BWOs is interesting and not at all unusual. The problem is the use of common names, but we have to use them. As you noted Troutnut is a great site and you’ve already discovered all the taxa called BWOs. The BWOs are a mess, and for what it is worth I reserve the common name BWO for the species in the genus Drunella (family Ephemerellidae). I refer to those individuals in the family Baetidae as simply Olives. And as you know there is a spectrum of colors associated with the Olives.

Years ago I got hung up on the discovery that certain Olives had an olive (or darker shade) on the dorsum of the abdomen and the ventral side, which the fish actually see, was a lighter gray. I even went so far as to tie with gray and use those Pantone pens to add the counter-shading. I don’t believe it was worth it, but it was fun to experiment.

Critters in general are fun, and the Olives are a hoot to fish, but a real mess when trying to figure out which species your fishing. I ain’t even sure God knows the genera and species in the family Baetidae.


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 Post subject: Re: A few tying and bug questions....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:30 am 
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Brown Trout

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:47 am
Posts: 352
So you are saying even God would have a few choice words trying to match during a good BWO hatch? Good to know. Bet he does not struggle tying the little flies on the tippet. What knot does he use? :lol:


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