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Fly Fishing in the Southeastern US
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 Post subject: Re: Grrrr.. PT legs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Phil wrote:
Nice on the soft hackle, but the bead head is way to big for the fly imo.


It's just a larger caliber for more knock down power....


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 Post subject: Re: Grrrr.. PT legs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:24 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Location: Cary, N.C.
Phil wrote:
Nice on the soft hackle, but the bead head is way to big for the fly imo.


Methinks there be a method to his madness, n'est ce pas?

A brutal mix of Elizabethan English and high school French.

With the offset of the hook point, the bead can be oversized a little because closing down the hook gap a little will not hurt.

Nice work there, Silver.

Yer Pal,
Streamer

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 Post subject: Re: Grrrr.. PT legs
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Streamer wrote:
Phil wrote:
Nice on the soft hackle, but the bead head is way to big for the fly imo.


Methinks there be a method to his madness, n'est ce pas?

A brutal mix of Elizabethan English and high school French.

With the offset of the hook point, the bead can be oversized a little because closing down the hook gap a little will not hurt.
Nice work there, Silver.

Yer Pal,
Streamer



Sounds great but when a brute shakes off I bet that ain't the words you'll mutter. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Grrrr.. PT legs
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:57 pm 
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Rainbow Trout

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:32 pm
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Sorry to take the thread in a different direction, but since there is a question why I used a larger bead.....

Pheasant tail nymph patterns sink relatively slowly because of the fuzzy nature of the fly. They sink even slower when you add legs to the pattern. I wanted to use a larger bead to get the fly to sink as fast as possible.

Most often I see PT's tied on curved nymph hooks like TMC 200R or straight 1XL nymph hooks with a smaller hooking gap and a tighter hook bend. This tighter hook bend does two things - it makes for a narrower hooking gap AND it limits the size of the bead that can be placed on the hook.

To get the fly to sink faster, you need to use a more expensive tungsten bead OR use a larger bead. Hence I used the scud style hook to both get a one size larger bead on the hook and to get a wider gap.

Regarding the hooking gap, I am of the opinion that what counts most is the the space between the hook point and the the fly body opposite the hook point. Since the distance between the oversized bead is larger than the hook "gap" I personally don't think this is much of an issue on this fly. Some fishers do believe that a larger bead decreases hook ups even if the gap is narrower so there is not universal agreement.

Some fly tiers will also tell you that you should use upturned or straight eye hooks on small flies. Take a look at pg. 178 of Designing Trout Flies by Gary A. Borger. The angle of a hook eye has no effect on the angle of pull on the hook. The angle of pull is determined by where the rod tip is in relationship to the hook and not by the angle of the hook eye to the shank. For example, one would think that a down eye hook would cause the angle of pull to be "down" on the hook, but the angle of pull is actually up if the rod tip is above the level of the hook when the hook set occurs.

Some fishers also think that a down eye hook somehow "narrows" the hooking gap and negatively affects the hooking ability of the pattern. That is not true either. The gap is the distance between the hook shank and the point and is not determined by the direction of the eye. What narrows the hooking gap is the material that is tied onto the hook at the location of the gap.

Some fishers believe that offsetting the hook bend will increase hooking. I agree because when the fish bits down on the fly, and you pull on the line, the fly is not perfectly flat in the bite. The hook point is more exposed and more likely to catch fish especially with small hook gaps. Other fishers believe there is no difference. In my experience, offsetting the bend of small gap hooks improves my hook ups. Hence I used the offset hook.

I also feel that the fish is better able to toss off hooks with offset bends and more so if there is a bead on the head that allows the hook to swing more on a jump. If you are losing fish after the hook up, don't pinch down the barb. So I tied the pattern on hooks with a barb and I generally don't pinch barbs down when I fish an offset bend.

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"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy


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 Post subject: Re: Grrrr.. PT legs
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:13 pm 
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Brown Trout
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Posts: 387
windknotter wrote:
Sounds great but when a brute shakes off I bet that ain't the words you'll mutter. :lol:

Been my experience that down eyes and big beads mean less fish landed offset hook or no. Nice write up.


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